6 thoughts on “straw

  1. bibwild.wordpress.com/

    I don’t understand the point of publicizing ‘mappings’ to fictitious/made-up schema.org vocabulary identifiers. It seems like it will confuse people into thinking these are legit, when they’re not. To make matters more confusing, _some_ of those schema.org URI’s _do_ exist (are documented to exist on schema.org documentation, although none of them resolve, there’s no actual requirement that URI’s used as identifiers resolve), and others don’t.

    Part of the point of using http URI’s as identifiers, is that you can create new identifiers in a DNS domain that you ‘control’ somehow, but not in someone elses!

    I can’t figure out what they were thinking, this seems like a poor choice. Imagine if someone else publicized ‘mappings’ to DC, where they just made up dcterms URI’s and called that a mapping, the DC folks wouldn’t like that very much, no?

  2. bibwild.wordpress.com/

    PS: Contrary to some popular belief, you don’t need to use URI’s beginning http://schema.org with microdata — you can use any URI’s at all. The foundation of URI-based linked data is that if you need an identifier that doesn’t exist, you mint one yourself (in a domain _you_ control) — they can just use their purl.org/library URI’s, just fine.

    There is obvious value in providing a mapping to _legit_ schema.org/ URI’s, so applications that understand schema.org/ URIs can understand elements in your vocabulary that map too, by the data publisher publishing with the mapping, or by someone else applying the mapping.

    I see _no_ value in mapping to _fictitious_ schema.org/ URI’s. If you expect people to modify their appications to understand your made-up schema.org URIs — why wouldn’t they just modify to understand your legit purl.org/library URIs instead? A URI is just an identifier — but by trying an unauthorized ‘extension’ of schema.org, they are possibly introducing conflicts with future legit authorized extensions of schema.org. You don’t get to go adding elements to someone else’s vocabulary using URI’s beginning with a DNS hostname someone else controls.

  3. ed Post author

    Jonathan, I totally agree about the mappings. I feel like I am missing some part of the story, or perhaps I interpreted things incorrectly. One thing to bear in mind is that OCLC’s library vocabulary really is just a strawman to generate discussion, not some finished thing. While it is definitely true that microdata allows people to create their own itemtypes and itemprops, I think OCLC (and others) anticipate that having what libraries, archives and museums need in schema.org will encourage interoperability, and could ultimately make the metadata more useful in search engines like Google. When enhancing search results with metadata harvested from the Web they will have to be selective in the types of schemas they pay attention to and use.

  4. Richard Wallis

    Thanks Ed for you detailed reply – not only much better than a few paragraph in an email, but also a conversation starter.

    For those that had not caught the announcement, your link goes to a strange place, the correct place is here. Also for my take on why this announcement is significant in many ways, check out my post on the background.

    Some of the decisions taken when approaching this, may clarify the thinking behind some of the issues you raise.

    The starting point, for this experimental release of WordCat data, was Schema.org. How far would we get only using the Schema.org vocabulary, what ‘library’ extensions, if any, would be needed to describe things sufficiently for general consumption by the major search engines.

    You were amused that the potential extension to schema.org does not include a Book class. As Schema.org already has a Book class, there is obviously no need to add one.

    You highlight possible areas where we are suggesting extensions that may not be needed, such as library:image which may be covered by schema:ImageObject. I am sure there are others, which we need to think about.

    You ask what the purpose of this library ontology.

    Several groups with particular focuses on data on the web, have proposed extensions to schema.org. For example the IPTC‘s recommendation for rNews was accepted and now schema.org has better coverage for news media data. Others such as eCommerce, via GoodRelations, and health and medicine, have also been adopted. This is the pattern with schema.org – a group that understand an area proposes an extension, which if adopted, will broaden the scope and usefulness of this broad vocabulary.

    So, the purpose of this library ontology is to start to address that from the point of view of libraries. To start a conversation around how we [the library interested community] could help the schema.org vocabulary to be more useful for describing the kind of resources that libraries hold, license, or describe.

    You also ask who [in this case] the consumers of this data are and who might want to share it in this way. The consumers are the search engines or ‘anyone else on the web’, hence the generic nature of the schema.org vocabulary and the high-level of the library extension. This is not how you would share the full richness contained today in a Marc record, for library to library communication. As to who would want to share it in this way – anyone with bibliographic information or items that the want to be found more easily. That obviously includes libraries.

    Schema.org is not the only show in town when looking for a way to share descriptions of resources libraries hold, but with it’s already significant take up on the wider web (around 7% of crawled pages) it is something we can not ignore. I believe we should embrace it as part of the general move towards linked data in the library community.

    If you or anyone else what to join in the conversation around this, a great place to start would be to drop me an email at data@oclc.org.

    Thanks again, Richard.

  5. profiles.google.com/11420235179…

    There is a draft schema.org proposal for periodicals (and comics – the proposal came from us at Marvel Entertainment and we have some experience in that domain) here:
    http://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/PeriodicalsComics. The proposal is currently in candidate status. Hopefully this can inform the mappings you posted earlier.

    We are active on the public-vocabs discussion list if you wish to discuss or I’m happy to talk directly.

    -peter

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